Re: [ccp4bb]: OSX: A great Linux alternative. But Stereo?

[Marc Saric <marc.saric@mpi-dortmund.mpg.de>]

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DeLano, Warren wrote:


> As a crystallography platform, Mac OSX offers substantial advantages over Linux for users, developers, and administrators:
> 
>    - full desktop environment (Office, IE, & other key apps)	

Linux: Staroffice/Openoffice/Mozilla, other key apps (?) for free

>    - full unix environment (trivial porting)

Linux: full unix environment for free

>    - defined/homogenous platform (less diversity/less hassles)

OK, got that point -which leaves you with the problem of a relatively 
sparse range of choices. There are tons of PCI/AGP-cards for the PC 
compared to relatively few for Apple (especially from 3rd-party vendors).
And OS X still has shortcommings regarding native drivers as far as I am 
informed

Linux: Mainstream stuff is supported quite well. I don't have much 
problems with my last three PCs.

>    - almost no driver/hardware issues (the plague of Linux)

Really? Recent Linux distros install right out of the box on a "normal" 
system (i.e. no Win-Modem or Win-Printer) and work quite well. Apple has 
a much smaller amount of supported hardware and there are still problems 
(2D-graphics performance, drives-support for some (older) equippment).

>    - fast & reliable accelerated graphics (OpenGL)

Linux: fast & reliable accelerated graphics (OpenGL)(I use it every day 
without problems)

>    - good number crunching performance on recent G4s

Linux: good number crunching performance on recent AMD/intel CPUs or 
even on IBM mainframes if you need one. And you could try to do mobile 
crystallograpy on a Sharp Zaurus (just joking)...


> Though you will pay a price premium for Apple hardware, all crystallographers should look very seriously at OSX instead of Linux as the platform to replace those ailing SGIs.  Likewise, developers (myself included) should provide key Mac ports ASAP.  I've been working on a fast G4 system for a couple of months now and have been very impressed -- with sufficent CPU power, this is a KILLER computing environment.  

You won't pay a price premium even for a high-end PC-system.

> However, the deep unanswered questions for crystallography are:   "Will ANY low-cost consumer system provide a reliable, hassle-free solution for stereographics?"   and    "Can we do anything about it?"

Same for Linux


> The Linux situation is bleak:

Why so?


>   * ATI has reportedly stopped production of the FireGL series
>   * ATI's succeeding cards (8700/8800) don't do stereo. 

Whats about Xig?

>   * 3DLabs does not provide Linux drivers and is being bought-out by Creative
>   * nVidia drivers are unstable and don't support stereo on Linux
>   * hacked 3rd party solutions only do top/bottom stereo
>   * key vendors will not open-source their hardware drivers.
>   * broad Linux heterogenaiety impedes stable closed-source drivers.
> 
> The Bottom Line: Though Linux makes for great compute clusters, "turn-key" desktop stereo solutions for Linux are an unlikely dream.

Uhm -maybe we should lobby nVidia to do stereo-graphics in their 
upcomming chips? Would make an extra killer-feature for games if 
autostereoscopic displays become cheaper (as they shurely will within 
the next few years)

> So, what are Unix-Loving-Stereo-Graphics-Junkies to do?  
> 
> In my view, our best hope is to STRONGLY ENCOURAGE Apple to facilitate a stereo-graphics solution under OSX.  We need to help Apple understand this priority.  They ARE listening, and they do ACT on feedback.

That's why they are market leader?

I would suggest: Do that with nVidia and the Linux-distributors as well 
and we will see who will respond first.


-- 
Bye,  Marc Saric

Max-Planck-Institut fuer molekulare Physiologie
Otto-Hahn-Str.11  44227 Dortmund  phone:0231/133-2168