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Re: [ccp4bb]: Refmac vs. cns: nucleic acids?



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Hi everybody,

> > 
> > I'd be interested in people's humble opinions on their experiences with 
> > nucleic acids in particular.  Many of the backbone torsion angles aren't 
> > well defined in moderate-resolution maps (2.5ish), but they do matter.  
> > Especially for non-canonical structures, I've wondered if we're really 
> > dealing with them properly.
> 
> Since nobody picked up on that yet, here I go ... i hope I will be 
> humble enough [;-)]
> 
> The word is that XPLOR/CNS is far better than REFMAC on refining nucleic 
> acids. REFMAC (.. and PROLSQ back then) make the sugar backbone 'funny' 
> according to some, the bases non-planar according to others.
> 
> Partially true - I think. 

Well, IMVHO (V stands for Very) "partially" is the good adverb here. It was
not the case for me: Refmac (at that time it was Refmac4/Protin) did a very
good  job with  my  DNA structure  (a  Holliday junction  including two  GA
mismatches)   For  a   summary,   the  crystals   were  quite   anisotropic
(diamond-like plates  diffracting poorly in  the short side  direction) and
some  of the  diffraction spots  a little  bit splitted,  but the  data was
reasonable, and we managed to solve the  structure by MR and MAD. It was my
first structure (this  is why my opinion must be considered  VH), so I read
the (friendly?) manual  of XPLOR, I asked around and  started to refine the
whole thing. But,  as you can imagine at least some  parts of my structure,
those  nucleotides laying  in the  crossing  point, could  not easily  been
considered as  "canonical". I was not  able (obviously, not  meaning it was
impossible) to  completely abolish the  torsion restrains on the  sugars to
free the puckering (as Tasssos mention  in his email) nor to find the right
weights  for the  so-called "b-restraints"  on hydrogen  bonding  among the
complementary bases (when working at medium resolution, it was some 2.2A in
my  case,  and with  not-so-good  data you  must  use  them, otherwise  the
force-field tends to separate the bases)

So, I  did a first  attempt with SHELXL,  I read the very  friendly manual,
asked a  lot of  questions to  Isabel Usón (thank  you!) but  I was  in the
"twilight  zone"...  the  maps  looked somehow  better,  but my  refinement
didn't progress.  And then,  I found  refmac. At the  first reading  of the
manual,  I did not  understand hardly  a word.  But, as  Kavafis poetically
mentioned, it  was the rough long  way which gave Ulysses'  life a sense...
The manual did not gave any sense to  my own's, but I was forced to learn a
lot more about what I was trying to do.

> For the backbone though there is a point. I vaguely recall the York 
> refinement workshop at '97. After some smart participant (Miquel Ortiz 
> ?) pointed it out, I recall Eleanor having a look at the all-famous 
> PROTIN code around midnight and figuring that 'main chain' could only 
> have one chiral center - which is fine with proteins but a bit of a 
> disaster with nucleic acids if the ribose is considered the main chain ! 
> There was a single line fixed that I used ever since but I doubt if that 
> ever made it in the wide public. 

Yes, it was me (nice from you to remember, Tassos) Eleanor helped me a lot,
and I  am in debt  with her  and with Garib,  for their patience  and their
suggestions. Following them, and adding some restraints to link, in protin,
one nucleotide  to the next  one (it was  Phil Evans who provided  me with,
then  I  changed  them  a  little  bit  according  to  the  "standard"  DNA
parameters) the  refinement with refmac4/protin was quite  easy, and needed
not  too hard  manual rebuilding.   BTW, as  far as  I  remember, Eleanor's
protin fix was included in the next release of CCP4. 

What at that time I found great in refmac/protin was it flexibility. I know
now that CNS/XPLOR  can also be quite  flexible, but as Tassos, I  am a bit
biased  toward refmac. I  think it  is useful  to use  as many  as possible
approaches to  solve a  problem, that's why  diversity is great.  But maybe
this is not the "politically-correct" way in the "high-throughput" times... 

Sorry for this long post. I hope not to have been too boring! 
Cheers,

Miguel
-- 
Miguel Ortiz Lombardía             | Tel: +33-1 45 68 86 08 
Institut Pasteur                   | Fax: +33-1 45 68 86 04 
25, rue du Dr. Roux                | email: ortiz@pasteur.fr 
75724 Paris Cedex 15               | http://www.pangea.org/ai-cat 
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